microphone check. tavis: good evening. smiley. tonight, it looked at regina and political life, ted kennedy. i will be joined by two people who worked with him for many years, john lewis and veteran washington insider vernon jordan. we will also hear from historian douglas brinkley. we're glad you joined us. remembering ted kennedy, coming up right now. >> there are so many things that wal-mart is looking forward to doing, like helping people live better. but mostly, we're helping build

stronger communities and relationships. with your help, the best is yet to come. >> nationwide insurance proudly supports "tavis smiley." tavis and nationwide, working together to improve financial literacy and the economic empowerment that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] tavis: a couple of quick programming notes. due to the breaking news of senator kennedy's passing, our conversation with c.e.o. ron williams will air tomorrow night. and he is a critical voice and

health care debate, opposed to the public option. he will explain. that full conversation airs tomorrow night on this program. also on the end the program, edward brooke and african- american republican who served alongside it ted kennedy in the u.s. senate. tonight, i am pleased to be joined by congressman john lewis, a civil-rights pioneer and longtime georgia congressman to knew and worked with senator kennedy for many years. congressman lewis, nice to have you on the program, sir. >> am delighted and please to be with you tonight. tavis: it is such an honor to have you won. i wanted to have you won for a number of reasons, not the least of which was your number of years working with senator kennedy and with dr. king. i also wanted to have you want

because you were the recipient of the john f. kennedy profile in courage lifetime achievement award presented to you in 2001, by senator kennedy. take me back to the time that senator kennedy bestow that prestigious award on you, sir. >> i will never forget the occasion when senator kennedy along with his knees, caroline kennedy, presented me with the kennedy profile in courage lifetime achievement award. it was a wonderful evening. he was very happy and very pleased presenting made the award. i have known senator kennedy for years. i got to know his two brothers, president kennedy and robert kennedy. to spend that time with him and be honored by him and by his family, it was unbelievable to

be there with him with my family. he was a one-of-a-kind, tavis. he was our shepard, our champion. he spoke up and he spoke out for those who have been left out and left behind. he was a champion of civil rights, voting rights, and i feel very blessed that i had an opportunity to get to know him and work with him for many years. when i got to the house, we extend the voting rights act, improved to civil-rights legislation. we got to do it. we musto it, over and over he would say, and we will do it. it tavistavis: you said it he wr shepherd and champion.

what was it about the relationship between the kennedys and black americans? what was it about the relationship between the kennedys and black folks that made for such a special bond? >> there was something about the kennedy family. when president kennedy and ladybird kennedy, and it was passed on to senator kennedy. there was this feeling that these men would do the right thing. that they would be our champions, that they would look out for the cause of civil rights and social justice. in congress, the first major speech that senator kennedy made was on the 1964 civil rights act.

he did not just state and boston or washington. he traveled to mississippi, atlanta, georgia. he visited not just the african- american community but he went to the southwest and visited with migrant workers. tavis: what you make of the fact there was the special bond between ted kennedy and his brothers and african-americans? knowing your history, here you are a poor country boy from alabama, and there are a lot of other country black folk back in the day or be funded by these rich white guys from massachusetts. -- who were defrauded by these rich white guys from massachusetts. how was that? -- to work befriended by these rich white guys from massachusetts. how was that? >> it may have appeared be strange, they could travel to the delta mississippi and georgia. you could see a picture,

especially after the assassination of dr. king and john f. kennedy, the would be a picture of john f. kennedy, robert kennedy, martin luther king jr., and a picture of jesus. tavis: i have some church fans in my personal collection. everybody who would go to this churches would see those pictures on those fans. i was thought it was amazing that it would be in churches all across america. >> i have some of those also. somehow, in some way, these men gave people a sense of hope in a time of hopelessness. tavis: you were there, one of the foot soldiers with dr. king. we know that you were beaten and almost killed on a number of locations. you were the youngest person to speak at the march on washington on that day where king gave the "i have a dream" speech.

your resume is intact and regard to your duty and service on the civil rights front. because you were there, you were there, and dr. king was not always happy with john kennedy or bobby kennedy. edward kennedy seemed to take a different tact. what you make of that? >> -- what do you make of that? >> we were not always happy with the president of -- the position of president kennedy or robert kennedy, but along came brother teddy kennedy, who bitterly as a senator threw everything that he had, his soul, his heart, his guts into supporting strong supports legislation and to be a voice. i think he learned from his brothers that we could do better, and he wanted to eat -- one of the strongest piece of civil rights legislation and the strongest possible flooding rights act in 1965.

-- the strongest possible voting rights act in 1965. tavis: do you think he became stronger on these issues because he knew the failings and shortcomings of his brothers? >> i think he became stronger because he knew in his soul, in his heart that we can be stronger, we can be better. he used to use the term, the phrase, "is the right thing to do, and we must do with." it was part of his faith, part of his upbringing to do the right thing, and care for the least among us. he felt that america could never be what america should be until we completed the civil-rights revolution in the 1960's. tavis: a wanted play a clipip fm senator kennedy on this program

-- i want to play a clip from senator kennedy, talalng about brown vs. the board of education. >> when you think of that case, you think of the magna cardoza for black americans -- the magna carta for black americans and all americans. it opened up the civil-rights movement of 1964, the public accommodations, the nondiscrimination in employment, the 1965 voting rights act. i think the brown vs. board of education was the decision that really set the stage. it was dr. king it was the spiritual -- it was dr. king who was the spiritual leader of the movement, but brown vs. board of education opened that way. tavis: education is one of those ways that we appreciate senator kennedy for being stalwart on, yes? >> senator kennedy had a passion

for equal education for all of our children. i remember so well when that decision came down in 1964, -- one that in 1954, i was 14 years old. i thought i would get to ride on a better school bus. in never happened for me. i continued to attend overcrowded, poorly supported, segregated s sools. but kennedy, he was our champion with education for all children. he felt that every child should receive the best possible education. tavis: i mentioned that we will speak with edward burke, former senator from massachusetts who served alongside senator kennedy. my question is whether or not you are concerned that the absence of a lion like senator kennedy means there is going to

be a deficit in the senate? are you concerned about who will raise these issues in the u.s. senate? >> i am deeply concerned with what have the likeness of ted kennedy in the senate -- i am deeply concerned that we will not have the likeness of ted kennedy in the senate. we may not have another person like senator kennedy in our lifetime. i hope i am wrong. but i did not think there is anyone who can fill the shoes of senator kennedy. he was one of a kind. tavis: congressman john lewis, i am always honored to have you on the program and share your insights. thank you again for your love and service to our community and think for seri -- sharing your thoughts about your friend ted kennedy. >> thank you very much. tavis: earlier today, i spoke

with vernon jordan about the passing of senator kennedy. i appreciate the opportunity to talk to you today. >> i am happy to talk to you, though it is a sad moment in america. tavis: let me ask you about your long-term friendship and relationship with senator kennedy. we all know that for a number of years that you were head of the national urban league. i also imagine you knew him long before then. >> i actually met senator kennedy in 1968, when his brother robert who was pursuing the democratic nomination for presidency asked me to have a conversation with kennedy about direct involvement on my part in the robert kennedy campaign. i had a long session -- with ted kennedy about that.

i made the decision to continue my stewardship at the voter education project. tavis: you turned down bobby kennedy? >> yes, i did, 1968. tavis: for all the stories we have heard over the years and the last hour since he passed away, we heard about what they did great negotiator he was. how did it ted kennedy take that you were telling him that you are going to pass? >> he got over it. and we remained great friends. you remember in 1980, when i was shot in fort wayne, one of the first visitors to the intensive care unit to see me when my

life was 1 foot in the grave and another on a banana peel, teddy kennedy came to fort wayne to see about his friend, vernon jordan. in july of 1980, when i was still in the new york hospital recovering from that, ted kennedy was campaigning in the bronx. i heard it on the radio and saw it on television. before the afternoon was over, unexpectedly, he was in room 1719 at new york hospital to visit and give comfort to his friend, vernon jordan. he was incredibly compassion that -- compassionate when it came to his friends. he was one who was not only sympathetic, but he would stand

by you and prompt you what -- and prompt you up when you were leaving. i will never forget those hospital visits. tavis: you referenced 1980. that was the year that he decided to run against jimmy carter. he was trying to wrest the democratic nomination from then- president jimmy carter. let me ask you specifically what kennedy did in that race. >> i think it created a kind of ambivalence. we had elected carter in 1976. the black vote made a huge difference in putting him in the white house, and i think there were some feelings about which way to go, whether to stay with

the incumbent or stay with kennedy. i forget what the breakdown was, but i was very much aware there was a split. tavis: we have heard a lot since his passing about his strong and unequivocal record on civil rights. let me ask you to properly contextualize where he stands, how these rates, juxtaposed against his brother? my read of it is john f. kennedy has the record, robert kennedy got better over time before he died during the civil rights era, but edward kennedy was the best of the three. >> there is no question about that. he had something to build on. and he had with his brother the president did and his brother the attorney general and senator did, and he built on it and he had laundered work on it than they did. -- and he had longer to work on it than they did. the president was in office not

that long, and robert kennedy was attorney general not very long and not very long as senator, but teddy served almost 47 years in the united states senate, and we could always count on him. he was there when we needed him. tavis: i wonder, vernon jordan, now that we live in the most multi-ethnic americans ever, now that we have an african-american president, i wonder whether there will be another senator like him in terms of fighting for the least among us, those were disenfranchised. will we see another senator like him? will history demand that we have other senators like him, given that some believe now we do not need ted kennedy and we live in a post racial america? >> i think we have to hope that we will not just get one ted kennedy but that we will get 10,

15, 20 ted kennedys to serve in the house or the senate. this notion about post racial, i am not sure that it is post racial. i am very pleased, obviously, about the election of barack obama as president of the united states, but as -- but that does not mean the issue of race is finished, that we have crossed the finish line. we need what teddy kennedy has given us. we need what he has left us. i hope that we will get many more like him. tavis: finally, for those who will take an interest in the nobility of public service, what is the abiding lesson that we ought to take from the life and legacy of ted kennedy? >> he showed us the way. he was an example, 47 glorious

years in the united states senate, and he served well, he served long. we are the beneficiaries of that service. tavis: a great leader in his own right, vernon jordan, with his thoughts about edward kennedy of massachusetts. mr. jordan, thank you for the opportunity. >> any time, my friend. tavis: also, i spoke with douglas brinkley. your thoughts on the life and legacy of ted kennedy? >> this past year, he did an oral history project in virginia which will be healthy -- which will be a help desk dollars. there will be a lot of new information there. this is a legislative giant. people talk a lot about john kennedy and bobby kennedy, ted kennedy fought for the -- fought for the disenfranchised and the

poor and elderly. he has been pushing for universal health care since almost day ononand the senate in 1962. he had the wind at his back pushing for voting rights, civil rights. he is unambiguous, a liberal icon, american icon, international icon who even went to south africa and spent time with bishop tutu in the heated days of apartheid and came back and announced the apartheid regime there. everything ted kennedy there had it the stamp of caring about people, and he is one of our great political figures. tavis: as an historian, we have these have been followed conversations about liberalism, but it seems to me, the balance of his career, he never shied away from the "l" word, where others have. >> exactly right. bill clinton was trying to say he was a new democrat and people

started playing around with the word progressive. he was a proud liberal. he thought it was part of the tradition of theodore roosevelt 's new nationalism and fdr's new deal and lyndon johnson and a great society. he was a proud liberal, and now the liberals backing both barack obama, they have learned a lot from ted kennedy. president obama, when we were children during the cuban missile crisis, three-year-old, ted kennedy was out there fighting my whole teenage years into my 20's and 30's and 40's. the great act of heroism when he endorsed barack obama made such a big difference, basically taking that and handing it to barack obama, doing it inh caroe kennedy. i know that president obama is sorely going to miss ted

kennedy, but because he was a health care out warrior, -- health-care warrior, but because he always gave president obama unvarnished advice. since chappaquiddick, he was not trying to run for president, he was trying to help american people for perhaps is ethical lapses in his life. and he worked triple hard to make up for that, and the net effect of his life is really stunning. bill after bill, law after law, ted kennedy stamp is on it. tavis: muffled conversation with brinkley will air -- my full conversation with brinkley will air friday night. by last conversation with ted kennedy came last year. -- my last conversation with ted kennedy came last year. >> we have been blessed as a family to believe in public service and also believe it and

a political party i believe shared the idea that woodrow wilson had, that a political party has to stand for something. i believe that a political party can be an instrument to make change, and that is why i am a democrat. but my parents and m brothers and sisters have brought their children ought to be involved, to be engaged, to be part of the process. to share what oliver wendell holmes said. tavis: their hair few people -- there are few people who have suffered the public sorrow that senator kennedy did, but he never became bitter or jaded and became and remained a beacon of hope including the least among us. in a year when partisanship ruled the day, he would reach across party lines to enact some of the most important and lasting legislation in all of u.s. history. ted kennedy will be buried at arlington national cemetery

alongside his brothers, john and robert. until next time, good night from l.a.. -- until next time, good night from l.a. as always, keep the faith. >> as he said many times, from those he salt and those who touched him, some men see things as the art and it say why? i dream things that never were and say, why not? -- some men see things as they are and say why? i dream things that never were in say, why not? -- and say, why not. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley on pbs.org. tavis: hello, i am tavis smiley. join me next time for our conversation with at that c.e.o. ron williams and his take on the current health care debate -- join me next time for our

conversatatn with aetna c.e.o. ron williams and his take on the current health care debate. >> there are so many things that wal-mart is looking forward to doing, like helping people live better. but mostly, we're helping build stronger communities and relationships. because with your help, the best is yet to come. >> nationwide insurance proudly supports "tavis smiley." tavis and nationwide, working together to improve financial literacy and the economic empowerment that comes with it. >> ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [captioning made possible by kcet public television] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--